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 Topic: putting an S or a U in glbtq

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use_an_s  



Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 2


Posted: 6 Apr 2003, 6:43 pm    Post subject: putting an S or a U in glbtq Reply with quote

When I heard about this new encyclopedia of GLBTQ culture, I was fairly intrigued. Got here, did a couple searches, and found very little of relevance to my life experience. Searches for natural law, univocal gender issues, and similar issues yielded no results. Where are the entries on Alan Keyes? Fulton Sheen?

Neither could I find discussions on such topics as liberalism, or relativism.

This site has a LONG way to go before it presents a fair, balanced outlook on life, especilly for the univocal gendered.
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philipp  



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 4
Interests: gay lit/movies/pop culture, queer theory/culture, (arbitraryness of) gender roles in queer, philosophy/psychology, GLBT civil rights, history, gay identities
Physical Location: Bonn, Germany

Posted: 7 Apr 2003, 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: putting an S or a U in glbtq Reply with quote

Personally, I believe that the people creating/using this site take it for what it is: an "encyclopedia of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, & queer culture".

Considering the essay called "Freedom to Love" you posted on the lit board, it seems to me that your interest in Alan Keyes mainly consists in "teaching the community" about the "eternal laws" of morality, which, in my very subjective opinion, does nothing else than once again fan the flames of the discussion on whether or not homosexuality is a "lifestyle/choice" or some sort of given fact - or whether being gay is "good" or "bad". This, then, to me seems opposed to the concept of "queer culture", which for the most part exists beyond this ongoing unfortunate discussion. We have wasted enough time with being told and taught by others who and how valuable we are. Dealing with GLBT(Q) culture issues is a way of "taking things in our own hands", and (at least to me), this is what a site like glbtq.com is devoted to. Thus, Alan Keyes' (or other peoples) morality (please refer to some quotes I have added at the end) is equally opposed to the idea of this site.

I personally believe that a site like this is not the place to once again be "taught" about so-called "normative values" and "eternal laws of morality", maybe also because I do not believe in the existence of those laws. This belief is rooted deeply in conservative movements and is most probably based on a tremendous fear of change. If nature itself, however, taught us one thing, it is that the only "eternal" thing is change. Whatever we believe to have "understood" as eternally valid will be subject to reconsideration before long. Refer to the latest discussions on "dark matter" and "dark energy" in astrophysics, which will most probably turn our models of the universe inside out, showing that what we believed are solid laws of physics are simply wrong.

This does not mean that we should not deal with people like Alan Keyes and their issues; I just think that this "dealing" should be critical. I hope that this site will not degenerate to a platform for the exchange of pro-gay and anti-gay arguments.

"Human sexuality is primarily a matter of moral and not physical health. So-called 'health-based' sex education programs have done more harm than good. They too often encourage adolescents to consider sexual activity apart from marriage and family life. Especially in government schools, where teachers feel they must deal with sexual matters without reference to moral authority, they result in a vapid, context-free presentation of sexual mechanics which degrades the meaning of relations between the sexes."
-Alan Keyes

"So the notion that you could put homosexuality into some category and say (opposition to the homosexual agenda) is just prejudiced, and all of that - you destroy freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of moral judgment. Indeed, you destroy the whole concept of moral judgment when you do so. And that, by the way, doesn't just apply to homosexuality, because after all, if I can't control my sexual passions, why is sexual passion going to be treated differently than other passions that are, in effect, encoded in our biological nature? We have inclinations to anger, inclinations to cowardice, inclinations to jealousy and resentment, that all of the folks have now said are part of our genetic and biological make-up. Does that mean that when it comes to all these areas, we are no longer to be held accountable for what we do."- Alan Keyes

"That would destroy, by the way, the very idea of freedom itself. The whole concept of freedom is based on the notion that human beings do, in fact, have a capacity for moral choice for which they can be held accountable and responsible. . If we are going to turn away from that, and see ourselves as a function of our national passions, helpless in the face of all of these whims of passionate desire that blow us hither and thither, than we are little better, in fact, than animals in a maze. And the best you could hope for is to structure society in such a way that we don't harm each other and ourselves too much. That's called totalitarianism - and that is exactly what is implied if we accept the key premise of the homosexual agenda."
-Alan Keyes
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DevinMax  



Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Interests: Leather
Physical Location: Boston, MA.

Posted: 9 Apr 2003, 10:19 am    Post subject: Troll pt.2 Reply with quote

I thought this was supposed to be a safe place for gay and tranz, but if it's going to get overrun by trolls like use an s with that Sheed crap in Lit. or any demand for a gay-hating idiot like Alan Keyes to be included, then forget it! I came here looking for information and perhaps a little support, not to be assaulted by the self-righteous fundie-spewing idiot trolls!
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philipp  



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 4
Interests: gay lit/movies/pop culture, queer theory/culture, (arbitraryness of) gender roles in queer, philosophy/psychology, GLBT civil rights, history, gay identities
Physical Location: Bonn, Germany

Posted: 9 Apr 2003, 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Troll pt.2 Reply with quote

well, devinmax, i might (and should) have put it that way, too - instead of elaborating on it for about 5 million lines. ;-) some things simply are not worth the effort!
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DevinMax  



Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Interests: Leather
Physical Location: Boston, MA.

Posted: 9 Apr 2003, 1:01 pm    Post subject: trolls like use an s: Reply with quote

Philipp, glad you agree. I was impressed that you posted the quotes from Keyes just so anyone else who does not know the foul-mouthed Keyes could have a taste of his antigay bigotry and religious insanity. I hope that this site is not going to become a playground for trolls and anti-gay anti-tranz bigots. A little debating can be good for the soul but copying some foolish pamphlet right-wing propganda should not be allowed.There are plenty of Xtain fundie web sites that announce that they do not want any messages from gay and tranz (Christianity Today and Crossroads to name two) so fair is fair. I'm not here to get beat up! Devin.
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glbtq  
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 133


Posted: 9 Apr 2003, 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: putting an S or a U in glbtq Reply with quote

As philipp and DevinMax have said, use_an_s posted a message on glbtq's literature board that was both homophobic and off-topic. Because such messages violate our guidelines and our Terms of Service, we deleted the message.

Philipp is right to point out that glbtq is an encyclopedia of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer culture. As such, it is not the place to find information about Allan Keyes, Fulton Sheen, or others who attack GLBT people.

Wik Wikholm
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