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 Topic: gays and the bible

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KC14  



Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1

Physical Location: Jacksonville, Fl

Posted: 27 Jun 2003, 12:12 pm    Post subject: gays and the bible Reply with quote

what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.
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anony  



Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 18


Posted: 28 Jun 2003, 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


Check out the article on this Web site about "The Bible." It's in the literature section.
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jtperkin  



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 1

Physical Location: Owosso, MI, USA

Posted: 3 Jul 2003, 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

anony wrote:
KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


Check out the article on this Web site about "The Bible." It's in the literature section.


After much struggling with the same issues (growing up as a devout Christian, I tried for years to "cleanse" myself of my homosexuality), I have discovered the following:

1. The Bible explicitly condemns homosexual acts which are idolatrous (take focus away from God) or abusive (do not show love).

2. The contexts in the Old Testament suggest that homosexuality outside of idolatry and abuse is disallowed because it did not create more descendents of Abraham.

3. The most-often quoted passage (Leviticus) is set within a group of commandments describing ritual purity. These types of commandments were summarily dismissed by Christ as being unnecessary after his ultimate sacrifice.

4. Paul was most concerned about the unity of the Body of believers; in that time, women preaching or dressing stylishly were both distracting and divisive to a congregation of worshippers. Similarly, homosexual acts made members of the Church look more like Greek "pagans" engaging in idolatrous worship. If nothing else, Paul was a great PR man ("they will know us by our love") and spread the Gospel through reputation as much as rhetoric.

5. While the Bible is not fallible, those who interpret it are. And there is a lot of interpretation to be done in Biblical study. If Moses and Paul had both said, "do not under any circumstances put your ***** in a man's *****," or, "women, do not under any circumstances put your _____ in a woman't _____," then the issue would be resolved. Unfortunately, the only people who say that are not Biblical authors.

6. I'm not so sure about interpreting physical homosexual acts into Biblical stories. Attitudes and cultural mores were different at that time, and to read our present understandings into the past is just as wrong as reading a ban on religio-prostitutional homosexuality as a ban on all homosexuality. While the emotions and physical contacts may have been the same then as now, it was certainly not seen as so by the Biblical authors (or translators).

7. I am biased about what the Bible says. I have tried to be as honest and open-minded as possible. The most difficult task is reconciling the Truth from the Bible with the truth of my homosexuality. I didn't write the Bible; I didn't choose homosexuality. But I know that both are equally true. Therefore the two must agree.

(If you end up in an arguement, I have found this last point to be the most salient. The "Christians" debating you will not call into question their heterosexuality and cannot logically expect you to call into question yours.)

One final note: the moralities that heterosexual Christians are expected to follow should hold true for homosexuals as well.
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werechick  



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 28


Posted: 21 Jul 2003, 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Samuel... 18, I think, it talks about some major gay themes. Jonathan and David loving each other and making a covenant (immediately afterward Jonathan gives David the symbols of his manhood and disrobes... you can guess what that was not-so-subtley hinting at)
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lola  



Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 1


Posted: 10 Aug 2003, 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my


THIS IS FROM A HETERO , FEMALE TO ALL YOU GAY BASHERS, BIBLE
>THUMPERS AND SO FORTH!
>
>TO BIBLE THUMPERS:
>JESUS SAYS :IT IS OUR SOULS AND OUR SPIRIT THAT IS IMPORTANT.
>
>WE ARE TO TREASURE PEOPLE FROM THEIR INSIDES.
>
>SO IF A MAN LOVES A MAN OR A WOMAN LOVES A WOMAN WE ARE STILL SPREADING THE
>BASIC MESSAGE OF LOVE, --------- AND ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE
>BIBLE? TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER?
>
>JESUS DOES NOT CARE WHAT THE "CASE" OR "PACKAGE" IS THAT A PERSON CARRIES
>THEIR SOUL AROUND IN. HE CARES IF IT IS PURE. LOVE IS PURE.
>
>
>"LOVE DOES NOT BOAST, LOVE IS PATIENT. LOVE IS KIND. LOVE IS NEVER
>JUDMENTAL!"
>
>GET IT?
>
>AND WITH HALF OF HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGES ENDING IN DIVORCE. HETEROSEXUALS ARE
>CERTAINLY NOT THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE PREACHING ABOUT LOVE.
>
>IN THIS AGE, WE SHOULD JUST BE HAPPY THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO LOVE AND BE
>LOVED......... THAT MY DEAR HYPOCRITES IS THE WORD OF THE LORD!
>
>DO NOT RECITE BIBLE PASSAGES TO ME THAT YOU THINK SAYS OTHERWISE, WE ALL KNOW
>THINGS CAN BE INTERPRETED TO FIT YOUR NEEDS, OF LOOKING AT ANOTHER PERSON IN
>JUDGEMENT.
>
>WHAT YOU CAN'T INTERPRET DIFFERENTLY IS THIS: LOVE IS THE BEST QUALITY WE
>HAVE TO GIVE. DON'T CONDEMN ANYONE FOR GIVING IT!
>
>JUST WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF, AND IF YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ANOTHER PERSON, THAN
>PICK THE PERSON YOU LEAST WANT TO SMILE AT, AND SMILE AT THEM. NOW, THAT
>IS THE WORD OF THE LORD.


family.
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Murdoch  



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Interests: reading gay fiction (erotic, mysteries, etc.) e-mail, chatting on Yahoo Messenger (as timotito_1964), traveling, cooking
Physical Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: 22 Sep 2003, 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


Howdy!

Tim here, from Seattle. I'm a born-again, evangelical Christian who is also gay. I'm currently attending a non-affirming church, although there are quite a few gays and a couple gay-affirming pastors.

I can give you one site to check out, which is a group that I'm active in. It's Evangelicals Concerned, and ther site is http://www.ecwr.org. Unfortunately, I don't have any other websites and stuff handy, but I'll be back in the near future to post many other sites of interest. As for books, I can suggest Pastor, I Am Gay by Rev. Howard Bess (I wrote an extensive review of this earlier this year and might post it as a response to the msg as well.) Also check out What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality as well as The Bible and Homosexuality (authors unknown).

_________________
Thx, and take care!
Tim M. ;)
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AMichelle  



Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 2
Interests: general spirituality, paganism, ts/tg

Posted: 6 Dec 2003, 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


Personally, since I do not follow the BIble or credit it with any spiritual authority in my life, this is a non-issue. But I understand that those who are (or wish to be) in Bible-based religions have concerns here.

Most of the Biblical references to homosexuality are in the OT (primarily Leviticus) and relate to ritual purity or tribal law for nomadic Hebrews at that time. I have a difficult time understanding why Christians, who were given a new covenant by Jesus, worry about the legal codes of a covenant that does not apply to them. For references to the BIble (especially Christianity) and homosexuality, I have been particularly impressed by John Shelby Spong's work.
_________________
BB,
AMichelle
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PapaSteve  



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 1
Interests: spirituality, tibetan spaniels, relationships lasting over 3 days, politics, music (except rap),fibromyalgia support
Physical Location: Old San Juan, Puerto Rico

Posted: 6 Feb 2004, 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


The absolute best resource I have found in my study of the subject is still John Boswell's "homosexuality, Christianity and Social Tolerance." It is the basis for many of the other works on the subject.

As a priest who pastors a mission parish of the Communion of Eccumenical Anglican Churches (a new, small denomination of inclusive parishe), I can assure you that God loves you, and you are who you are because the S/He want's you the way you are. That does not mean you can't improve yourself, but that the basic framework has been laid for you to be the best you possible.

In our denomination, Gender, Sexuality, financial ability, physical ability, marital status and any other human condition that is used to separate people from God are just not issues. I have a hard time understanding why people love to try to separate other's from God in the first place, but there you are.
_________________
don't tell God how big the storm is, tell the storm how big your God is.
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cchvz  



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 1

Physical Location: Los Angeles, West Hollywood, California

Posted: 30 Mar 2004, 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: gays and the bible Reply with quote

Another place you may want to check out for extensive information on what the Bible says about homosexuality is the Metropolitan Community Churches website, www.mccchurch.org. There is a section specifically on this topic. Here is the direct link to it: http://www.mccchurch.org/HandBible/HandBible.htm

Good luck,
Carlos



PapaSteve wrote:
KC14 wrote:
what does the bible say about homosexuals? i am gay and i want to defend myself to my family.


The absolute best resource I have found in my study of the subject is still John Boswell's "homosexuality, Christianity and Social Tolerance." It is the basis for many of the other works on the subject.

As a priest who pastors a mission parish of the Communion of Eccumenical Anglican Churches (a new, small denomination of inclusive parishe), I can assure you that God loves you, and you are who you are because the S/He want's you the way you are. That does not mean you can't improve yourself, but that the basic framework has been laid for you to be the best you possible.

In our denomination, Gender, Sexuality, financial ability, physical ability, marital status and any other human condition that is used to separate people from God are just not issues. I have a hard time understanding why people love to try to separate other's from God in the first place, but there you are.
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Trotsky  



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 12
Interests: I like people who make sense and I like to make sense of people, in a world that sometimes makes little sense.
Physical Location: Amsterdam

Posted: 4 May 2004, 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A point to think over:

I am created in His image. He is my Creator. The only way I can truely serve Him is by being true to the person He made me.The only way I can truely serve Him is by respecting His creation, and I am part of that creation.

Another one:

You don't need God to be good. In fact, if you're good without reference to Him then you're better than a believer, you're a practicioner.

And again:

It's not about faith in Him, it's about faith in yourself, because He created you, and by having faith in yourself you have faith in Him.

By the way:

This is the product of a grandmother raised an orphan by nuns, a mother sent to boarding schools run by nuns, 12 years of catholic schools, the first 7 years of life in a bible village, but I'm not religious. The only thing I believe in is the essential goodness of people, and that is difficult enough. Nevertheless, some of my 'articles of faith', as I call them, are best expressed in religious phraseology.
_________________
Harry Trotsky
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