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 Topic: Queer = Subversive ?

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philipp  



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 4
Interests: gay lit/movies/pop culture, queer theory/culture, (arbitraryness of) gender roles in queer, philosophy/psychology, GLBT civil rights, history, gay identities
Physical Location: Bonn, Germany

Posted: 14 Jul 2003, 4:45 am    Post subject: Queer = Subversive ? Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I just read the article on "Queering Will & Grace" in the recent edition of The Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide and found that the author in her analysis obviously equates queer with subversive. Now, I know that there is some profound discussion going on about the 'meaning' of 'queer', yet I don't quite agree with this equation (at least not to this extent) and thus thought I'd ask all of you out there interested what you think about this.

Best,
Philipp
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Macdonald  



Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 11
Interests: Exotic plants, books, fish, birds, dancing, books, film, and books.
Physical Location: Vancouver

Posted: 22 Jul 2003, 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Queer = Subversive ? Reply with quote

philipp wrote:
Hi everyone,

I just read the article on "Queering Will & Grace" in the recent edition of The Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide and found that the author in her analysis obviously equates queer with subversive. Now, I know that there is some profound discussion going on about the 'meaning' of 'queer', yet I don't quite agree with this equation (at least not to this extent) and thus thought I'd ask all of you out there interested what you think about this.

Best,
Philipp


Hi Philipp
I have never understood the fascination with Will and Grace - it's television, and a sitcom, for chrissake. I suppose, though, that in the wonderfully banal world of television, queer does equal subversive. I think the arguement has to be context-specific, and not indicative of any broader meaning. Has Will & Grace any broader meaning? Let's face it.
Mark
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werechick  



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 28


Posted: 6 Nov 2003, 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admittedly, "Will & Grace" has no higher meaning (unless perhaps the implication that love, unlike sexual desire transcends orientation...), it is designed as humor and thus should be regarded as such. In other words, chill.

As to "Queer=Subversive?" I say it can... depending on the context.
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jonny5  



Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 1


Posted: 30 Nov 2003, 6:29 pm    Post subject: Queer as subversive Reply with quote

Here are some thoughts:
According to generalizations in postmodern and poststructuralist thought (where "queer" comes from) as I understnad them, reality is a social construction that is both arbitrary and artificial. While post-postmodern thought a la Ken Wilbur argues for an evolutionarily progressive construction of purposive reality, I will limit the discussion to postmodern discourse. Since reality is constructed socially, it is easy to see that our historical present has been constructed in a heterosexual matrix, where heterosexuality is the only natural, normal, and correct form of sexual expression and identity based on social sanctions. Therefore to own a queer identity (that is anything that is not exclusively heterosexual) is to subvert the heterosexual matrix, in fact to breach it. Since the heteronormativity of society has limited linguistic codes for interpreting queer identity, the assertion of a queer identity opens up a space for constructions of reality that are queer-specific. In essene, this is a subversion of the heterosexual matrix. That means any assertion of queer identity (coming out) is subversion. Of course, this really works nicely when you define it in theory. However, as the others have said, there is a degree of situation specificity to queer as subversive. I hope that helped.
Peace, Power, Pride,
Jon
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Trotsky  



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 12
Interests: I like people who make sense and I like to make sense of people, in a world that sometimes makes little sense.
Physical Location: Amsterdam

Posted: 4 May 2004, 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon symplified.

You're gay: queen, queer, brown shifter, maricón, veado, Schwul, pédé, flikker, poot, nicht, poof, fag, off the bend, degenerate, etc, etc.

Living that in public is subversive.
_________________
Harry Trotsky
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