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 Topic: Whos your candidate................
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hyehopes  



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 7
Interests: Politics, History, Culture, Environment, Civil Rights, Religion, Foreign Policy etc...
Physical Location: Glendale, CA, USA

Posted: 24 Jan 2008, 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: what are important issues? Reply with quote

Hi Jay, I agree with most of your positions. However I don't think another Clinton for president is a good idea for three reasons 1) NAFTA 2) Hawkish stances 3) consolidation of power and corruption

Lets not forget the issues related to NAFTA and Free Trade (championed by President Clinton). These initiatives caused great harm to our country. The policies of President Clinton sent jobs overseas to nations which use cheap labor and immoral working conditions. They also stripped Americans of good paying jobs in the automotive industries as well as many other areas.

Also you must consider Senator Clinton's stance on the war in Iraq and war in general. She is and has been quite a hawk. Recently she has come out against the war (during the primaries) because otherwise she would not have a chance to win the Democratic election. She voted on making the Iranian Guard a terrorist organization and frankly, I don't think she is adamant about getting out of Iraq. Obama on the other hand, voted against the war when it was unpopular and I feel he has the integrity and a strong progressive stance on the issues.

Another issue that I have with Senator Clinton is her support group. Most, if not all, her main supporters (not individuals supporters like yourself Jay) are part of what I call the political machine. Deeply embedded with lobbyists and interest groups that have long been by the Clinton's side. They include everyone from former governors to powerful executives to influential lobby groups such as AIPAC and many others.

Plus I think an important question we must raise is: In a democracy so diverse as ours is it wise to have the same two families in power for over two decades? I dont think so. We can do better.

In regards to you comment about Obama being ripped apart by the Republicans, I actually believe its easier for them to target Hillary. They have been preparing for it for a while. In fact most of the Republican candidates would prefer Hillary over Barack because they are ready to take her on. And remember, compared to Obama and Edwards Hillary is not as progressive on the issues. I like many of your ideas, but I hope you take a closer look at your candidate. Take care Jay.

JayJay wrote:
Hi Hyehopes,

Most of your issues are the ones I also care about, though I would rank the economy higher than you do. The Bush administration has squandered the strong economy they inherited from the Clinton administration. They have gone on an incredible spending spree for an absurd war that has not only left us weaker, but has also drained our resources and ramped up an incredible debt. The dollar is at an historical low and our economy is kept alive only by the investments of the Arab states.

We need to get out of Iraq, pass ENDA, enact universal health care, end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," recognize same-sex marriage, civil unions, and domestic partnerships on the federal level, end torture and close Gitmo, and restore the country's reputation as a leader in human rights.

I think Hillary is more likely to do these things than any other candidate. I am afraid that Obama will be ground up by the Republican attack machine.
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JayJay  



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Interests: gay history

Posted: 25 Jan 2008, 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: what are important issues? Reply with quote

Hi Hyehopes,

I respect the problems you have with Hillary. I have some myself. She is certainly not my ideal candidate. However, I don't think Obama is ideal either, and on balance I think she would make a better President than he would.

I had hoped that he would be a "different" candidate, one who would repudiate the Karl Rovean politics of wedge issues and speak about real issues. But lately he has seemed just like the others, making absurd charges against the Clintons, injecting race as a wedge issue in South Carolina, and reacting to any criticism like a spoiled child. He will likely win South Carolina, but I think he will be decisively defeated on February 5.

I think both campaigns need to chill. Instead of tearing each other down, Hillary and Obama need to unite against the Republicans. They will do a good job of tearing down whoever is the Democratic nominee.

I like Obama's ability to inspire, but I don't think he has yet accomplished enough to be qualified to be President of the United States. Having said that, however, I would certainly vote for him before any of the Republican candidates. But I think if the country is given a choice between him and McCain or Romney, it would almost certainly vote for either of them. And four more years of Republican rule--even by relative "moderates" like McCain and Romney--would so damage the country that it could probably not recover for a generation.
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hyehopes  



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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Interests: Politics, History, Culture, Environment, Civil Rights, Religion, Foreign Policy etc...
Physical Location: Glendale, CA, USA

Posted: 8 Feb 2008, 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: what are important issues? Reply with quote

Hello Jay Jay

Yes I agree with you. Im happy that they have both toned it down a bit. However I must say that Obama was running a positive campaign. It wasn't until Bill Clinton got involved and unnecessarily attacked Obama calling him a fairytale then, including the reverend who attacked him on his drug use etc. The Clinton's started the personal attacks and Obama could not just stand by and watch, so I believe that he stood his ground in the debate in S Carolina and confronted that type of campaigning as well as explaining that their hands weren't so clean either (the Walmart accusations etc). And Im glad that Bill has listened and is not acting the way he was before. I think Hillary and Obama both have a lot of experience. The argument for lack of experience doesn't really stand in my view. Obama has a great team and he is ready to take on the issues and fix the mistakes in our nation that have been ignored by many presidents who we can say were quite experienced. Im glad Obama did so great on February 5th. Whats interesting is how many people voted for him. He one more states and a lot of delegates. He was able to get a lot of people excited about the process.

A Reuters/zogby poll explained that McCain has a better chance of beating Hillary if he is to become the nominee (thats what it looks like). Obama however has a chance. He is passionate, a great speaker and is able to bring folks from the other side of the aisle to his campaign. Hillary is a polarizing figure. republicans and Independents are not voting for her in droves like they are with Obama. And I think that will be the decisive factor. With that said, I will vote for either Democrat because I think that they are much better than anyone on the right.


JayJay wrote:
Hi Hyehopes,

I respect the problems you have with Hillary. I have some myself. She is certainly not my ideal candidate. However, I don't think Obama is ideal either, and on balance I think she would make a better President than he would.

I had hoped that he would be a "different" candidate, one who would repudiate the Karl Rovean politics of wedge issues and speak about real issues. But lately he has seemed just like the others, making absurd charges against the Clintons, injecting race as a wedge issue in South Carolina, and reacting to any criticism like a spoiled child. He will likely win South Carolina, but I think he will be decisively defeated on February 5.

I think both campaigns need to chill. Instead of tearing each other down, Hillary and Obama need to unite against the Republicans. They will do a good job of tearing down whoever is the Democratic nominee.

I like Obama's ability to inspire, but I don't think he has yet accomplished enough to be qualified to be President of the United States. Having said that, however, I would certainly vote for him before any of the Republican candidates. But I think if the country is given a choice between him and McCain or Romney, it would almost certainly vote for either of them. And four more years of Republican rule--even by relative "moderates" like McCain and Romney--would so damage the country that it could probably not recover for a generation.
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DVDLover  



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 24


Posted: 8 Feb 2008, 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: what are important issues? Reply with quote

Hyhopes and JayJay,

Super Tuesday was super for me. It convinced me that Obama can do it. He did exceptionally well with white males, a group that I feared would be more privately racist than others. He also did well in corn-belt states which was a surprise to me.

If she were the nominee, I would vote for Hillary in a second. But I hope I get to vote for Obama in the general election. That's who I want to vote for. Hillary's capacity to bring out conservative Republicans in record numbers results from an irrational right-wing hatred of the Clintons, but it is a reality we Democrats have to face. I believe Obama will bring out the young people Howard Dean tried so hard to get in '04 and he will do well with independents who don't want Sen. McCain's 100 more years in Iraq. And it makes me feel great that Obama's the man the Republicans don't want to have to face head-to-head.

Plus, Obama Girl's YouTube videos are adorable. If Hillary gets the nom, Obama girl will fade away. That's a loss we should not have to live with ;-)
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JayJay  



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Interests: gay history

Posted: 8 Feb 2008, 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: what are important issues? Reply with quote

Hi Hyehopes,

I too will vote for whichever is nominated. But I think if Obama runs, he will be defeated in a landslide, carrying only New England, New York, Illinois, California, and a couple of other states. And that is not enough. One should never underestimate the power of the right-wing smear machine.

Should he get elected, I suspect he will be a President like Jimmy Carter, who also had very little experience at the national level. The Republicans will roll him.

I found it interesting that Hillary carried the gay and lesbian vote in New York and California (apparently the only states in which exit polls asked about sexual orientation). And that was before the revelations of how Obama snubbed Gavin Newsom, refusing to be photographed with Newson when Obama ran for the Senate in Illinois because Newsom was in the news for having attempted to legalize gay marriage in San Francisco. That doesn't bespeak much political courage.

We disagree about who injected race into the process. When everything Hillary or Bill says (for example, praising Martin Luther King, Jr. but recognizing that Lyndon Johnson also had something to do with the civil rights act of 1964) is twisted by the Obama campaign to be some kind of slight, one has to think that this is a calculated ploy to rally people on the basis of race.

I can certainly understand why Blacks are excited by the prospect of a Black man as President or why women are excited by the prospect of a woman in the White House. Either of these would represent a significant glass ceiling being broken. But appeals on these bases are harmful if they impugn the motives of other people (as many of the supporters of Obama have done to Hillary and Bill). They also are a double-edged sword and can create backlashes.

In any case, both Hillary and Obama are far better than McCain, and I hope that the Democratic Party (and independents!) will unite after the nominee is chosen.
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hyehopes  



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 7
Interests: Politics, History, Culture, Environment, Civil Rights, Religion, Foreign Policy etc...
Physical Location: Glendale, CA, USA

Posted: 8 Feb 2008, 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jay Jay I think you should read this article, its very interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/08/20008.matchups.schneider/index.html

Obama can beat McCain because he has the ability to bring in independents and even some disenfranchised Republicans. Hillary cannot. The Right despises Hillary. They have a whole network setup ready to bring her down if she wins. They are not prepared for Obama however. They never expected him to have a chance. I have been on some of their newly created websites I have seen their hateful T-shirts and its not nice. CNN interviewed an organization that is funded by a right wing millionaire whose sole purpose is to destroy Hillary's image. So the question of experience is null and void if we cant even win against the Republicans. Plus McCain is not too far to the right so he also has the ability to bring in independents.

Im not sure whats behind the gay and lesbian vote in CA and NY maybe name recognition. But lets not forget whose husband brought forth Dont Ask Dont Tell. Also II know Obama did much better on the LOGO GLBT debate (first ever) (the LOGO polls were pretty accurate). Obama even went to an African American church and explained the need to overcome homophobia in the Black community. THATS HUGE and it could have cost him votes but he decided that was the right thing to do. He also supported gay marriage in a town hall meeting. Hes more liberal and I believe he is more pro-gay and can actually bring congress and work with Republicans to get some of these dire laws passed (ENDA, Mathew Shepard Act, etc)
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JayJay  



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Interests: gay history

Posted: 9 Feb 2008, 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hyehopes,

It is *very* misleading to imply that Obama supports gay marriage. He has been emphatic that he does not. (Neither does Hillary, of course.)

As to the polls that show Hillary with a small lead over McCain and Obama with a larger lead, I don't trust them. In the first place, the Republicans have not targeted Obama, partly because they would love nothing better than to run against him. (In fact, in my state the Republicans have funded phone calls attacking Hillary in hopes of influencing the Democratic vote.) In the second place, only the party faithful and those intensely interested in politics have focused on the election. And, finally, people don't always tell the truth to pollsters, especially when it involves Black and gay candidates. They want to appear more liberal than they are on issues of race, gender, and sexuality.

(And DVDlover, while it is true that Obama did well with white males on Super Tuesday, you have to remember that these are *liberal* white males who vote in the Democratic primary. I doubt that white males will overwhelmingly vote for him in the general election.)

Obama has absolutely no record of getting anything done in Congress, so I doubt that he will be able to move any of the legislation important to us unless a lot of Democrats are also elected with him. The first two years he was in the Senate, he was a freshman in the minority party. Since Democrats took control in 2006, their majority has been so tiny that they have been able to accomplish very little. For whatever reason, Obama does not have a distinguished legislative record. To vote for him in the hopes that he can get things done is to take a great leap of faith.
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gennee  



Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 412
Interests: reading, writing, poetry, transgender issues, gospel, veteran's issues,jazz,education,religion,literature,Native-American and African culture,lighthouses,trails,castles,tractor trailers, playwriting, biograhies, electronics, bass guitar
Physical Location: new york

Posted: 13 Feb 2008, 1:25 pm    Post subject: Different Picture Reply with quote

A lot has changed in the last couple of weeks. It seems that the Democratic nomination is up for grabs. the Republican nomination seemed to be settled, though in this election you never know. In the coming wks and months issues will need to be expressed by all the candidates. Specifics are in order too because there's much at stake. What do you think?

Gennee
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hyehopes  



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 7
Interests: Politics, History, Culture, Environment, Civil Rights, Religion, Foreign Policy etc...
Physical Location: Glendale, CA, USA

Posted: 23 Feb 2008, 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jay, as many Americans saw in these last primaries and caucuses Obama not only one white males (both liberal, independent and even republicans) but made inroads to the female vote as well as Clinton's base of blue collar voters. I think it is obvious now more than ever before that Obama is appealing not only to democrats but republican (Obamacans) and independents as well. This is what u need to do in order to win the national election. The Right has mobilized against Hillary, there is a famous billionaire (whose name I forgot I apologize) who has created an organization that is creating films about Hillary and cartoons as well as shirts and other items. Christian Right groups have joined this group as well as many other in an attempt to bring her down. (there was a show about this on MSNBC twice).The Right wants to tear her apart and they have mobilized their supporters and their financial assets.

As for the case of gay marriage I think it is important to look at who has a better chance of being enlightened if you will in the near future. Obama has openly condemned homophobia in the black community in an African American church (that takes some guts) and he has said he has not problem with gay marriage. Bill Clinton introduced Dont Ask Dont Tell, a flawed and intolerant policy that Hillary now speaks against. While Obama has been fighting against discrimination and homophobia in places were that sort of talk isn't the best applause line, Clinton said "Well I'm going to leave that to others to conclude." When asked if she believed homosexuality is immoral or not (this was during the Peter Pace comment). I find it extremely deceitful when someone marches in a pride parade and cant stand up and say with enthusiasm and confidence that she believes the people she marched with are moral.

"Obama has absolutely no record of getting anything done in Congress"
What a ridiculous statement. I will mention just some of what he has done. But first I would like to say that he is not hypocritical unlike Hillary.
-Hillary voted to expand NAFTA to Peru recently now she is campaigning in Ohio against NAFTA
-Hillary voted for war authorization, now she wants to bring our troops home.
-Hillary voted to make the Iranian guard a terrorist organization yet she wants us to look to her for guidance and peace.

There are many more examples but I dont want to get into that too much. Obama on the hand doesn't simply say things to get votes and applause, he stands by the decisions he has made and I think that is crucial when it comes to integrity and honesty.

-Obama spoke out against the war (a judgment call that must be taken very seriously)
- During his first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 which was passed and became law.
- The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act which was passed and became law.
- The 2007 Government Ethics Bill which was passed and became law.
- The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, currently in committee
and many more, just look at his score card.

I think people are sick and tired of hypocrisy, lack of transparency and government corruption. America wants to see a a president who can stand for what he/she believes in. We want a change in the negative campaigns and rhetoric that have plagued us and I believe that we all want a leader who can work both sides of the aisle in order to bring about the changes we desire. We do not need another Bush or another Clinton, this is an amazing country full of inspirational men and woman who can bring about change and lead us into the future, that is why I believe we need to take advantage of that fact.
Because one of the most important issue to me is bringing about a new direction in our country. A change that will bring this country together and throw off the yolk of the corrupt machine, that has been regurgitating the status quo for far too long. This machine has favored the establishment and has successfully implanted the same two families as head of our government for over a decade, a move that has devastated our system of government and shattered the possibility of change in our country. This system must be put to an end in order to give room for democracy to flourish again and for progressive change to become a reality, not just a witty election talking point. We need true change and a leader who will not falter because of opinion polls, someone who will stand by their vision of change and Im convinced more than ever that that person is Senator Barack Obama.


JayJay wrote:
Hi Hyehopes,

It is *very* misleading to imply that Obama supports gay marriage. He has been emphatic that he does not. (Neither does Hillary, of course.)

As to the polls that show Hillary with a small lead over McCain and Obama with a larger lead, I don't trust them. In the first place, the Republicans have not targeted Obama, partly because they would love nothing better than to run against him. (In fact, in my state the Republicans have funded phone calls attacking Hillary in hopes of influencing the Democratic vote.) In the second place, only the party faithful and those intensely interested in politics have focused on the election. And, finally, people don't always tell the truth to pollsters, especially when it involves Black and gay candidates. They want to appear more liberal than they are on issues of race, gender, and sexuality.

(And DVDlover, while it is true that Obama did well with white males on Super Tuesday, you have to remember that these are *liberal* white males who vote in the Democratic primary. I doubt that white males will overwhelmingly vote for him in the general election.)

Obama has absolutely no record of getting anything done in Congress, so I doubt that he will be able to move any of the legislation important to us unless a lot of Democrats are also elected with him. The first two years he was in the Senate, he was a freshman in the minority party. Since Democrats took control in 2006, their majority has been so tiny that they have been able to accomplish very little. For whatever reason, Obama does not have a distinguished legislative record. To vote for him in the hopes that he can get things done is to take a great leap of faith.
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JayJay  



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
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Interests: gay history

Posted: 25 Feb 2008, 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hyehopes,

I think your inflation of Obama's record does no one any good, least of all Obama. He will be shredded by the Republicans. His "plagiarism" is bad enough; for him to take credit for all the bills you mention would suggest that he has already fixed the problems that beset America.

It does look like he has the momentum and that Hillary's campaign has imploded, partly because of irrational Hillary-Haters, misogynists, and people so idealistic that they overlook the lack of demonstrated accomplishment on the part of Obama.

If Obama gets the nomination, I will of course vote for him. Even as a gamble, he is preferable to McCain, about whom we know far too much. But I fear that the Democratic Party has once again shot itself in the foot.
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hyehopes  



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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Physical Location: Glendale, CA, USA

Posted: 6 Mar 2008, 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make some good points. But Obama never plagiarized that has been discussed and just wasn't the case. I think it would be great if Obama won because finally the Democratic Party would have an articulate and passionate candidate who shares my liberal viewpoint. If Hillary wins I assume I might vote for her mainly because of John McCain. But I will be truly upset that we continue to regurgitate the same type of leaders who express the same rhetoric. But either way I would still love to see an end to this insanity we have been living through with Bush. All I can say is thank GOD Bush cant run again :)
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Jakey  



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Posted: 13 Mar 2008, 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i could legally vote i would definitely vote for Obama. Looks like he might be able to Legalize Same Sex marriages. Now if i could only find a boyfriend.
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