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 Topic: can a real ts speak?

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kelly_mil  



Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 2

Physical Location: newyork

Posted: 25 Aug 2005, 1:44 pm    Post subject: can a real ts speak? Reply with quote

Well im a pre op ts whos has been a woman since i was 15. I took hormones b4 i dressed.I am sympathetic to this case but i dont see how a cd {crossdreser}can be called a ts.it takes hormones therapy and more than i year of living asa woman to hold that title.NO ONEdeserves to die.These young cd boys need to be warned about the dangers of crossdressing and trying to pass.It is ok to have friends but male contact in that sort of setting is surely sexually based.if this person had sex with them b4 how could they not have know?Didnt gwen have cd ,ts ,or tv friends? Some Genetic women can be quiet evil when it comes to this issue.They will out us if they know or spark suspicion.All real ts know this!BEing alone in an a party environment is a definate nono.THAT makes me sik evry time something like this happens and theeses davocate s rush to the frontline.where were they when this child needed guidance and tips on transitioning.IF IT ISNT SAFE FOR TS IT DAM SURE ISNT SAFE FORA CD.One of them could have/probably did know she was a crossdresser had sex with her and still took part in the slaughter!Please let this be a wake up to all cd teens who want to be ts!!rest in peace mami.
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kelly_mil  



Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 2

Physical Location: newyork

Posted: 25 Aug 2005, 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

advocates*
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kereth  



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Interests: classics, anthropology, gender and religion in the ancient world, religious and magical practices, archaeology, theory of ideas
Physical Location: Southeastern US

Posted: 7 Sep 2005, 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I understood your post fully, but it sounds like blaming the victim. It took me a few rereadings to even realize it was in reference to the Gwen Araujo case, and I dislike the fact that you seem to have lumped her in with "CD boys". I want to encourage debate, not suppress it, so rather than play moderator I'm going to go line by line and talk about what bothers me personally about this post.

Quote:
I am sympathetic to this case but i dont see how a cd {crossdreser}can be called a ts.it takes hormones therapy and more than i year of living asa woman to hold that title.

Actually, you're factually wrong here, or basing this statement on outdated information. Someone can be transsexual and not yet have begun transition, but authentically intend to. This is different from crossdressing because crossdressers do not identify as transsexual or intend to transition, although obviously the line here is pretty blurry.
Quote:
NO ONEdeserves to die.

You say that, but then the rest of what you say makes it sound like you think Gwen should have known better, Gwen did something dangerous, Gwen got what she asked for. That's blaming the victim, even if you preface it with the statement above. It's saying that trans people bear more of the burden for our safety than other people. It's like saying that Matthew Shepard should have known better than to be gay in Laramie.
Quote:
These young cd boys need to be warned about the dangers of crossdressing and trying to pass.

A young trans (-sexual or -gender) woman is not a boy. And again, this is tantamount to blaming the victim. It's like saying "Well, Gwen should have known better than to walk outside and stand under a telephone pole during a lightning storm." But murder is not an ethically neutral, natural force like lightning. It is a reprehensible crime no matter who commits it or whom it is committed against. There is nothing one can do about lightning, but one can and must stand against anti-trans violence. This means not blaming the victim.
Quote:
It is ok to have friends but male contact in that sort of setting is surely sexually based.

It's not a crime for a young woman to have male friends, or to be at a party with male friends. Believe it or not, it's not unusual for young women to have male friends with whom they are not sexually active. It's also not a crime for a young woman to want a boyfriend, and it doesn't mean she deserves to be killed.
Quote:
if this person had sex with them b4 how could they not have know?

I've wondered that myself. Although I believe it has been stated (or surmised) that the sexual contact was oral in nature.
Quote:
Some Genetic women can be quiet evil when it comes to this issue.They will out us if they know or spark suspicion.All real ts know this!

Are we born knowing this? Is this part of the diagnostic criteria that I somehow missed? Of course not. We learn this because we are taught it by people who feel that such fear is natural and desirable. Well, it's not. It's not natural or right that we live in a society where young women can't have friends or go out in public or learn about relationships. And it's society that needs to change. It's not right that trans people should have to live in fear. Certainly not fear of other people their age or their gender.
Quote:
BEing alone in an a party environment is a definate nono.

She wasn't alone. She was at a party, surrounded by friends, lovers, acquaintances, classmates— people she would have had no reason to fear, if it were not for their unreasonable hatred of people whose bodies were different from theirs. She did nothing wrong, nothing any girl her age would not have done.
Quote:
THAT makes me sik evry time something like this happens and theeses davocate s rush to the frontline.where were they when this child needed guidance and tips on transitioning.

Many of us were working to stop anti-trans violence instead of blaming the victims. There are tons of tips on transitioning out there. But even if Gwen had not intended to transition, she still deserved a society where she could live in safety. We don't have that yet, but the answer is not to avoid all social contact until genital surgery and then live in terror of someone finding out our horrible secrets for the rest of our lives.
Quote:
IF IT ISNT SAFE FOR TS IT DAM SURE ISNT SAFE FORA CD.

Maybe, maybe not— but CDs, even if Gwen were one, rather than a transgender teen who seemed to be socially transitioned and was probably headed for medical transition, assuming she was privileged enough to have access to it, deserve safety and social support just as much as TS people.
Quote:
One of them could have/probably did know she was a crossdresser had sex with her and still took part in the slaughter!

That's a thought I've had too. That doesn't mean she deserved to die, or that she should have known better, or that her killers are less to blame. If anything, if that were true, I would blame them more.
Quote:
Please let this be a wake up to all cd teens who want to be ts!!

I'm not sure what you want transgender teens who intend to transition to do on the basis of this warning. Hide? Never show their faces in public? Have miserable lives? Decide not to transition, even if they feel it's otherwise the right option for them? It sounds dangerously like you are saying "Let this be a lesson to you: If you are trans you are in danger and should fear for your life, because people are rightfully trying to kill you." That's not a message that I agree with or condone.

I'm especially bothered by your emphasis on authenticity, i.e. "real ts". How many young trans women are abandoned because older trans women see them as "just crossdressers"? How many young trans women lack support because of a false hierarchy with transsexuals who pass perfectly and have had surgery at the top, crossdressers who don't pass well at the bottom, and everyone else vying for supremacy in the middle? What about this fragmentation of the trans community, and how it hurts all of us? You've referred to trans women exclusively, and without apparently realizing that some transsexuals are trans men.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that young trans people— and I'm not going to quibble here about whether Gwen was transgender or transsexual, because it doesn't matter a jot— deserve real lives and friends and love just like young non-trans people. And saying that Gwen was murdered because she took risks ignores the real problem— anti-trans hatred. Some people think it's okay to kill trans people. The message needs to be sent that it is not okay. It's sad that the best possible outcome I can think of is for these young men, Gwen's killers, to have their entire lives ruined by their transphobia, so that other people can see that the crime of killing trans people is taken just as seriously as any other murder. Trans panic is not an excuse. "She should have known better" is not an excuse.

Kerrick

(Please note the post above was written not as moderator but as one individual, with opinions, responding to another.)
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